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to energy policy? >> to independence on foreign energy sources. >> who will obama a point* to the court? i am told we are going over a cliff. but that does nothing compared to the rate at -- real threat. what will we see? tonight. >> i am ready for the next four years because i have my crystal ball i will see what happens. first pundits will scream about the fiscal cliff a series of tax increases going into affect january 1st unless they work out a deal. they will. i can see it. they will meet, press conferences and predict disaster then reach a deal. it will not solve much but then the media will move on. america will continue to go broke. if i too cynical? and no. worse than that says congressman ron paul. predict the future. >> the future looks good people know that what we have today is not workable but short-term the people will not admit we're bankrupt or on the verge of a major major change in our society. but they will destroy the dollar were reinforced to change our system of financing. it could be big. not quite as bad as the soviet system but changes are to come. true bankruptcy
. >> john: what does my crystal ball say about things like marijuana. >> what will happen to energy policy? >> this is horrible. >> dependence on foreign energy sources. >> who will obama appoint to the court. it will grow bigger? i'm told we are going over the cliff but that cliff is nothing compared to the real threat. what will we see in four more years? that is our show tonight. >> >> john: i'm ready for the next four years because i have got my crystal ball. first pu7b diswill scream about the fiscal cliff. first pundits will scream about the fiscal cliff a series of tax increases going into affect january 1st unless they work out a deal. they will. i can see it. they will meet, press conferences and predict disaster then reach a deal. it will not solve much but then the media will move on. america will continue to go broke. if i too cynical? and no. worse than that says congressman ron paul. predict the future. >> the future looks good people know that what we have today is not workable but short-term the people will not admit we're bankrupt or on the verge of a major major change in
to clean energy companies to get off the ground. he actually plans to meet with scientists and engineers and lawmakers in the next few weeks to discuss further steps that can be taken to reduce carbon emissions in the short term. but there won't be action at the federal level without the cooperation of congressional republicans and that is going to be a challenge to put it mildly. the entire house g.o.p. leadership team, john boehner eric cantor, kevin mccarthy and all of the rest, all of them signed a pledge opposing any climate legislation that raises tax revenue. that so-called no climate tax pledge, that tax pledge is backed by the tea party group americans for prosperity and guess who funds americans for prosperity? yep, the billionaire koch brothers who made their fortune from oil pipelines and refineries. and who, of course, along with other oil and coal lobbying groups spent $270 million on ads attacking the president this election. here's the good news though. that pledge opposing any climate legislation
investigation into whether a popular energy drink is dangerous, even fatal. more deaths are being looked at in connection to five hour -- to 5 hour energy. katie marzullo is following new developments. >> reporter: the city attorney is getting in on this demanding the makers of energy drinks prove they are safe. he wants labels to be more accurate. today researchers are releasing a report on the risks of the drinks as the fda drops a bombshell in the past four years 13 deaths have been linked to 5 hour energy drink and 30 people have suffered serious or life-threatening injuries like heart attacks. a few weeks ago the fda said monster energy drinks were linked to five deaths. we don't know what is in the study, a doctor did tell us how these drinks can be dangerous. >> if somebody were to have a predestined heart condition adrenaline with the caffeine may tip them over the edge and cause lethal arrhythmia. >> reporter: energy manufacturers point out there is no proven link between products and the death. 5 hour energy said the product is intended for busy adults and contain as much caffe
mutual insurance. responsibility. what's your policy? new pink lemonade 5-hour energy? 5-hour energy supports the avon foundation for women breast cancer crusade. so i can get the energized feeling i need and support a great cause? i'm sold. pink lemonade 5-hour energy? yeah and a portion of every sale goes to the avon foundation for women breast cancer crusade. i'm sold. new pink lemonade 5-hour energy. get the alert, energized feeling you need and support breast cancer research and access to care. >> shepard: nation's airlines facing what appears to be the first pilot shortage in 50 years according to the "wall street journal" which our parent company owns. journal sites several reasons behind the expected struggle to fill the cockpits including a new rule set to take effect next august it requires new pilots to have 1500 hours of flift experience. that's six times the minimum right now. and all that training is not cheap. keep in mind the average starting salary for a pilot is roughly 20,000 bucks at regional airlines. 36,000 at major airlines. this comes as the industry braces fo
to give you five hours of energy but federal officials have received reports of 13 deaths that cited that highly caffeinated energy shot. we have details on that on this thursday morning. thank you for joining us, i'm megan pringle. >> and i'm charlie crowson. got to get right to the weather this morning because while it is a broken record for sure, it's one we need to hear about the comb temperatures. >> exactly you don't want to leave the house without your coat. we can see the temperature in pilesville 29 degrees that's well below where we should be now for this time of the year. we should be around 37, 36 degrees for our low temperature. and we are well below that in pilesville. west friendship still coming in below coming in at 34-degrees this morning. and as we go into towson that temperature coming in at 35. we have a slight windchill those winds are light. but still we're feeling a little bit chillier than the actual temperatures. make sure you do bundle up as you head out and about. maryland's most powerful radar is dry right now. looks to stay that way into the afternoon. a
and at least two more in the senate minority. what the party needs to do to 5-hour energy? 5-hour energy supports the avon foundation for women breast cancer crusade. so i can get the energized feeling i need and support a great cause? i'm sold. pink lemonade 5-hour energy? yeah and a portion of every sale goes to the avon foundation for women breast cancer crusade. i'm sold. new pink lemonade 5-hour energy. get the alert, energized feeling you need and support breast cancer research and access to care. >> another white house loss for the g.o.p. coupled with their failure once again to take back the senate. many in the party calling for change. what can republicans do to regroup for 2014 and beyond. jason, a wonderful time of the the season, called recrimination. (laughter) >> otherwise known to journalists as shooting the wounded, which is our specialty, so, what, how much trouble is the republican party in? >> they're in a lot of trouble, the coalition needs to expand. it's that simple. there are democrats, the trends in this country, the g.o.p. has to wake up to, and adjust accordin
and other claims from the 2010 gulf oil disaster. >>> the fda says over the past four years, 5-hour energy shots have been cited in the deaths of 13 people, this after last month's news tying monster energy drinks to five fatalities. >>> pizza chain papa john's is under fire after allegedly sending hundreds of thousands of unsolicited text messages to its customers. plaintiffs are seeking $250 million in a class-action lawsuit. >>> well, say it isn't so. twinkies gone by thanksgiving? hostess says if striking workers don't return to the job by the end of the day, it will be forced to liquidate. >>> after years in the making, some kansas city folks are the first in the world to test drive google's new super fast broadband service. >>> and could big pharma have something in the pipeline to keep men from cheating? well, a small new study showed men in relationships who were given oxytocin stayed farther away from unknown, attractive women. >>> well, a wild turkey strikes back just a week before thanksgiving. we'll show you the video. >>> plus, the thrill of a lifetime for one 9-year-old boy.
con ed and long island power authority. >>> the fda says over the past five years 5-hour energy shots have been cited in the deaths of five people. monster has been tied to five fatalities. >>> pizza chain papa jons is under fire after sending hundreds of thousands of unsolicited text messages to its customers. plaintiffs are seeking $250 million in a class action lawsuit. >>> say it isn't so. twinkie's gone by thanksgiving? hostess says if striking workers don't return to the job by the end of the day, it will be forced to liquidate. >>> after years in the making some kansas city folks are the first in the world to test drive google's new super fast broadband service. >>> the 2014 winter olympic games in sochi are still more than a year away. folks in moscow are already getting their hands on official merchandise. >>> and could big farm ma have something in the pipeline to keep men from cheating. a small study showed men who were given oxytocin stayed farther away from unknown attractive women. there you go. >>> well, a wild turkey strikes back just a week before thanksgiving. we'll
. but i am the saving money on energy type. so we switched to the cold cycle and with tide coldwater his teddy bears are clean. polar bears. that's our tide for conserving energy. on this veterans day we want to tell you about a local effort part of a nationwide program from the library of congress called the gunman's history project. we are here with more. the federal program began in 2000 and has collected 85,000 oral histories so far helping in that effort is an entire court house and waukegan. many other employees set aside one day last month to record the amazing wartime experiences of a dozen world war two veterans. we fall out of formation the second engine is starting to smoke. we walked but very mild altogether. we walked. there were memories still so big it even though nearly 70 years have passed, 88 year-old george carlo was a radioman on ab 24 liberator one week after his 20th birthday he was shot down during a bombing mission. >> the navigator there were body parts all over the airplane. but he still has the 1944 telegram first informing his parents he was missing in
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. . >>> say it ain't so. why you might not be able to eat a >>> energy drink drama. >>> of government is now taking a closer look at potential changes for the 5-hour energy, the dangers of 5-hour energy drink after the food and drug administration received 13 death reports since 2008 that mentioned the highly calf feeted drink. there is no proof that it contributed to the deaths. cases call for more studies. >>> a hormone could help men with wandering eyes stay faithful. a group of men were given the so-called love hormone oxytocin in the form of nasal spray. another group got a placebo. they kept a greater distance when approached by attractive women. >>> we were talking about this earlier. can you prove that the ones who did not go near the attractive women who approached them were just doing it because they're good men who know better. >> or they have been well traepbd by their women. >> like fear of death? >> exactly. 6:27 is our time right now. the local university kicked off the list of best colleges. >>> and a local college student accused of killing her roommate. i may not be what po
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will drive calf too, that's where the energy needs to be put. that's where the biggest bang for the buck will be in the business because, remember, as we looked at these more than minor changes in the financials of the telephone companies across the country, it was so important that we do these two things coi understand didn'tly. -- coincidentally. we got out of sync, one down efficiently and fast. we just have to work the usf thing, and it's about the consumer. >> host: jeff gardner, president and ceo of the windstream corporation. he is also chairman this year of the u.s. telecom trade association. he's been our guest on "the communicators" along with paul barbagallo of bloomberg. gentlemen, thank you. >> guest: thank you.Ñsr >> next, the interim america dialogue discusses the results of the november 6th elections and implications for latin america. panelists discuss the prospects for change with the obama add enrings' policies involving immigration, trade, drug policy, and economic cooperation. this is about an hour and ten minutes. >> this morning, we're going to have a conversation
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. >>> the fda says over the past four years five-hour energy shots have been cited in the deaths of 13 people. this after last month's news tying monster energy drinks to five fatalities. >>> pizza chain poppa johns is under fire after allegedly sending hundreds of thousands of unsolicited text messages to his customers. plaintiffs are seeking $250 million in a class action lawsuit. >>> say it isn't so. twinkies gone by thanksgiving? what would a girl do? hostesses ses it is striking workers don't return to the job by the end of the day, i will will be forced to liquidate. >>> after years in the making, some kansas city folks are being the first ones in the world to test drive google's new super fast broadband service. >>> the 2014 winter games are still more than a year away. folks in moscow are already getting their hands on the official merchandise. >>> and could big pharma have something in the pipeline to keep men from cheating? that's right. a small new study found men in relationships who were given oxy toes instayed far away from unknown attractive women. how about just stay away from
-breaking triplets. >> a word of caution about a highly caffeinated energy shot. they are investigating the popular energy drink. find out why at 6:00. virginia tech and the university of virginia, at two dick schools with an even bigger rival rick perry >> there are competing -- two at big schools that are competing against each other in a bitter rivalry. >> two schools known for backing men and women in uniform. they want to be known for supporting men and women in a different type of uniform. >> we both have alumni involved in the military. what better way to try to increase participation by playing on that competitive element. >> virginia tech and uva alumni are teaming up to see which school can collect the most books for the united for a reading program. they send a books overseas. once there, trades are able to record themselves reading a book to their children. -- troops are able to record themselves reading a book to their children. >> goodnight, guys. >> we have heard from some families that say their son will wake up and have breakfast with that on television and read a book along with t
energy was spent on health care and other things coming into the question is do you see that -- how do you strike that balance and do you see that changing as you go forward into the next four years? >> to complicate your questions about what the balance in the short term and the immediate and long-term things that matter for the strength of the economy and i think it's important to recognize that as we get to the next phase of the fiscal reform debate you have to think about this not just about how you bring them down gradually to the point they are sustainable you to think about it in terms of what can you do to improve the long-term growth in the american economy? there are things we have to do in infrastructure and education just to name to that are important to the potential of the country and are not very expensive. if we sacrifice those objectives in the interest of getting more fiscal restraint more quickly than is desirable would do damage across the country, so i would just encourage people to look at -- we want to look at things that are good for growth now and over the long
50 from alcohol. >>> next, popular energy drink that may be linked to the deaths of 13 people. what you need to know before you pick one up. >> can a little extra holiday money come in handy now? >> yes. >> michael finney will have tips on turning that ring or bracelet you don't wear any more, into cash. ♪ ♪ we were skipping stones ♪ and letting go ♪ over the river and down the road ♪ [ female announcer ] at nature valley, we know nature comes together in amazing ways. that's why we bring together natural ingredients, like dark chocolate with toasted oats, or sweet golden honey. perfect combinations of nature's delicious ingredients, from nature valley. ♪ ♪ i was thinking that i hope this never ends ♪ [ female announcer ] nature valley granola bars, nature at its most delicious.
is a critical time period. >> reporter: the rig's owner, houston-based black elk energy said yesterday a worker cutting a pipe ignited vapors from oil still in the system setting off the explosion. the couple said the worker used a cutting torch. today the contractor doing the maintenance work, grand isle shipyard said there is no torch and called that account completely inaccurate. one of the things federal strangers will be looking into is why there was still oil in the pipe that was being cut. oil should have been purged from the system when it was first shut down. this platform is 80 miles away from b.p.'s deepwater horizon, which exploded in 2010, leaking five million barrels of oil into the gulf. unlike deepwater horizon, which was a mile deep, this rig was in shallow water, just 56 feet, and since it was not producing oil, there was only a small leak of about 28 gallons. the c.e.o. of the company which owns the platform toured the site with investigators. he says while his main concern remains the victims, the company still plans to eventually bring that platform back online. margaret. >
is promising a thorough review of why the power company's response to the energy seemed so slow. >> they will be held accountable for past performance and then we also have to get smart about this and we have to make sure we're prepared for when this happens again. because i believe this will happen again. >> president obama is scheduled to tour the new york city area on thursday and will be briefed on the rebuilding effort. >>> volunteers in contra costa county went to work tonight preparing some much needed supplies to send the people back east who are in those storm damaged areas. heather holmes is live where boxes of donated goods will soon be shipped out. >> reporter: frank for more than five hours tonight this baseball shed was bustling an assembly line of volunteers hoping to solve the big problem thousands of miles away. take a look this is the result. 97 boxes of everything from sleeping bags to two way radios sealed and ready to go. >> this is great. fantastic. >> reporter: from gold weather clothes,. >> we have some diapers and wipes. >> to baby items. >> reporter: to
's unbelievable. >> and going to say that next. ♪ buy 5-hour energy pink lemonade and ♪ ♪ you can help others along the way. ♪ ♪ a portion of every bottle that they sell goes to fight ♪ ♪ breast cancer and i think that's swell. ♪ ♪ the more you take, the more they'll pay, ♪ ♪ so make them write a big check today. ♪ ♪ and if you're feeling a little slow, ♪ ♪ then 5-hour energy will help you go. ♪ ♪ so buy a bottle of pink lemonade and ♪ ♪ you can help fight breast cancer today. ♪ that's the sound of car insurance compani these days. here a cheap, there a cheap, everywhere a cheap... you get it. so, what if instead of just a cheap choice, you could make a smart choice? like, esurance for example. they were born online and built to save people money from the beginning. it's what they've always done. not just something they cheap about. that's insurance for the modern world. esurance. now backed by allstate. click or call. starts at 6 eastern. now, back to new york and "the five." ♪ >> love the doobie brothers. right now, we're seeing republicans argue why the
,000 feet into the air and could be seen 20 miles away on shore. black elk energy, the houston-based company who owns the platform, says 1 of the 22 contractors onboard, improperly used a blowtorch to cut the pipeline igniting the explosion. 11 workers were injured, medevacked to safety. four with severe burns. >> they treat us contractors as part of their family. so, when there's an incident, it hurts. >> reporter: as far as the oil spill, the coast guard says the impact is minimal because the rig was shut down at the time. >> the environmental threat, as we know, there was 20 gallons that potentially were in that 3-inch line, which would equate to approximately 28 gallons of product. >> reporter: not even enough to fill a large suv's gas tank. in comparison, bp's deepwater horizon disaster, 2 1/2 years ago, spilled enough daily to fill the gas tanks of 82,000 suvs. and just a few hours ago, two more boats actually doubled in size arrived on the scene to help with the search. which is a 40-mile, by 35-mile radius around that platform. the weather has been cooperating. there are no storms in
that are important for queer communities -- the energy that we are putting around marriage equality issue. >> this is an important question. issues of employment discrimination are critically important. even things like health care disparity, if you will, the reality of where lbgt people are, it is not quite clear and it doesn't bubble up to what is being talked about right now. because marriage equality had been at the forefront. and i do think in some ways, it is why the national gays and lesbians have spent so much time trying to broaden this to make sure that transgendered people in those issues are included in all the work that we do. it is widely thought very hard to make sure that gender identity is included in the employment nondiscrimination act. because we could go the other way with incremental progress with his progress. but we would've left out a whole swath of the community. folks who have greater experiences of discrimination, violence is still an issue. we forget that people are still being violently attacked because of who they are and because of who they love. i think a
about opportunities in the areas of trade and energy and other global affairs that really should be taken advantage of by the united states moving forward. but we have to -- we emphasize as well there are three issues that were on an old agenda that had not been resolved and stood in the way of more productive relationship between the u.s. and latin america. these issues were drugs, cuba, and immigration. the first two issues were important at the summit of the americas. the report was released right before the summit of the americas. the first two issues were raised at the summit. the presidents get a mandate to the american states to study the drug issue and the president made it clear there would not be another summit or unlikely another summit unless there was cuban participation in the summit. those issues certain were prominent. i think the election results had interesting implications for all three of these. perhaps the most important is the last one, immigration, which was not on the summit agenda. i think it has raised some expectations that this may be a real opportunit
of the inter-american dialogue, and we talked about opportunities in the areas of trade and energy and other global affairs that really should be taken advantage of by the united states moving forward. but we have to -- we emphasize as well there are three issues that were on an old agenda that had not been resolved and stood in the way of more productive relationship between the u.s. and latin america. these issues were drugs, cuba, and immigration. the first two issues were important at the summit of the americas. the report was released right before the summit of the americas. the first two issues were raised at the summit. the presidents gave a mandate to the organization of american states to study the drug issue. and also the president made it clear there would not be another summit or unlikely another summit unless there was cuban participation in the summit. those issues certain were prominent. i think the election results had interesting implications for all three of these. perhaps the most important is the last one, immigration, which was not on the summit agenda. i think it has ra
, cleaner energy, while protecting our environment. across america, these technologies protect air - by monitoring air quality and reducing emissions... ...protect water - through conservation and self-contained recycling systems... ... and protect land - by reducing our footprint and respecting wildlife. america's natural gas... domestic, abundant, clean energy to power our lives... that's smarter power today. domestic, abundant, clean energy to power our lives... oh, let me guess --ou see this? more washington gridlock. no, it's worse -- look, our taxes are about to go up. not the taxes on our dividends though, right? that's a big part of our retirement. oh, no, it's dividends, too. the rate on our dividends would more than double. but we depend on our dividends to help pay our bills. we worked hard to save. well, the president and congress have got to work together to stop this dividend tax hike. before it's too late. he loves risk. but whether he's climbing everest, scuba diving the great barrier reef with sharks, or jumping into the market, he goes with people he trusts, which
. >>> a warning about a very popular energy drink. the concerns that it could be linked to more than a dozen deaths. >> police are trying to catch an arsonist, we'll tell you about the latest fires police believe he set just last night. >> parents in san jose have a lot of questions about why a registered sex offender was allowed at their children's school. we'll tell you why he was not arrested, and we'll have more on the sheriff's department investigation. >>> passengers report being stuck at airports or runways some people say they've been waiting for up to two hours this morning. for the flights to take off. united blames a computer out damage. this is video from news chopper 2 taken of sfo. you can see united planes parked at the terminal this is at least the third major computer outage for united since june. and it happens with continental. the passengers are being told by pilots and airport agents that the computers are down and they don't know when the system will returned. of course, this does not bode well for the airlines. it's a week from thanksgiving, and that's when holiday tra
to the committee on energy with instructions to report back the following amendment, number 2880. mr. reid: i ask for the yeas and nays on that motion. the presiding officer: is there a sufficient second? there appears to be. the yeas and nays are ordered. mr. reid: i have an amendment to the instructions. that's also at the desk. the presiding officer: the clerk will report. the clerk: the senator from nevada, mr. reid, proposes amendment numbered 2881 to the instructions on the motion to commit s. 3525. mr. reid: i ask for the yeas and nays on that amendment. the presiding officer: is there a sufficient second? there appears to be. the yeas and nays are ordered. mr. reid: i have a second-degree amendment at the desk. the presiding officer: the clerk will report. the clerk: the senator from nevada, mr. reid, proposes amendment numbered 2882 to amendment numbered 2881. mr. reid: i have a cloture motion on the bill that is already at the desk. the presiding officer: the clerk will report. the clerk: cloture motion. we, the undersigned senators in accordance with the provisions of rule 22 of the st
all of us giving to some people. a few benefit like clean energy then you might get the money and some of the with the defense contractor in favor of mitt romney that is good for your business but bad for the economy in general to tax some people. romney had a good line you n't just pick winners and losers but you pick the losers. john: they could the random selection people look at politician as the person to solv every problem? president obama was the magic president. these people were waiting three hours. he is magic. >> they've really feel he has the intrinsic quality now they he has been reelected to change people's lives like he has only been warming up. for what? it is terrifying. john: people felt this way about romney. >> but obama is a classic example of the colt of the presidency the idea tht any politician can fix all the problems is not start with the obama but is the attitude we should get rid of racism. he should stop the rise of the oceans and get everybody house. i saw a teenager said he should give everybody a house. kids say that is understandable. but adults are sup
. and it may not be worth the boost.. the popular energy possibly linked to more thaa dozen deaths.,,,, >>> here's a look at today's forecast in some cities around the country. washington, d.c., partly sunny 50 degrees. atlanta, morning rain, 54. st. louis, clouds and sun, 54 degrees. denver, mostly sunny 45. seattle, variable clouds, 50 degrees. >>> police say john bon jovi's daughter was rushed to the hospital after overdosing heroin. she's facing drug charges after the incident police say happened yesterday in her dorm room at hamilton college in upstate new york. investigators say they found heroin, marijuana and drug paraphanalia after searching the dorm. >>> two brothers tricked a man out of a lottery ticket worth $5 million sold from their own family run store. investigators say the brothers told the victim he won $5,000 and gave him $4,000 after a $1,000 cashing fee. lottery officials got suspicious when the brothers tried to claim the real prize so they planted a story in an effort to find the true winner. >> there was a guy on the street saying that this was his money, so
. presumably they felt they could win and they spent the time energy and money to put on the ballot that because the coalition when they would come out with a religious argument with you saw were fair-minded religious leaders standing up countering what they were saying and that's something we haven't seen as aggressively in the past. they also are simply losing support. i was on a panel today and this was much more exciting with brian browner once the national organization for marriage and he is desperately spinning and he talks about the state that he talks about how they were outspent this time. they had seen their support shrank. they're not going to go away and they will learn their lessons and i agree with patrick. i think they could come back in a very forceful way that they have seen their support shrank. they have seen their grassroots support strank strength in their donor base shrink. the mormon church is a player we did not see in these campaigns. they were the dominant player in prop 8. you also saw a lot of individual donors on that side that were not there this time w
every 33 years. >>> two u.s. senators are pushing the fda to restrict caffeine levels in some energy drinks. those drinks include full throttle, red bull, amp and 5-hour energy drink. the push from an illinois senator and connecticut senator comes after 13 deaths were linked to 5-hour energy shots. san francisco city attorney has also asked energy drink companies to provide more information about marketing their products. >>> well, it is soon going to cost you a little more to send out your mail. postal regulators approved boosting first class postage by another penny, raising the price of the first class domestic stamp to 46-cents. the rate hike is set to take effect january 27th, tied to the rate of inflation. . >>> more than $200,000 worth of fake designer goods in orange county this weekend is part of a six-month crackdown of makers of false brand name items. designer counter fits are a growing problem and authorities seized more than $8 billion worth of fake goods in 2011, a 24% increase over the previous year. >>> for the first time, los angeles officers will patrol today's foo
've spent the the time and energy to put them on about. because of the coalitions, and with them come out with the religious are you what you saw were fair-minded religious leaders and faith leaders in the accounting what they were sent to that something that we have seen as aggressively in the past. they also are losing support. you were saying, i was on a panel today, this is much more exciting with brian brown who runs the national organization for marriage, and he is desperately spinning, and he talks about the left liberal states but he also talks about how they were outspent this thing. well, they have seen their support shrink. a have seen can be are not going to go away and they learn the lessons. i think they could come back in a very force away, but it seemed their support shrink the they've seen their grassroots support shrink and they've seen their donor base shrink. the mormon church is a play that you did not see in these four campaigns but they were the dominant player in prop eight. also saw a lot of individual donors on the outside. not do this thing. where's on the proto
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